Warning: Some hateful commentary on religious beliefs lies within. [andythenerd: I’ll leave this here, even though I don’t have any particular sympathy for Christian privilege, because that intersection with queerness makes things rather more complicated.]
christgoldman:
cctcd:
writeoutoflove replied to your post: I like your blog and you seem like a cool person, but I don’t understand the cognitive dissonance that must be required for you to be christian. How do you rationalize being a part of a movement that in its own text, explicitly states that the way you…
It’s not about Christians being jerks. It’s about the teachings and texts of Christianity being not only homophobic and transphobic, but… well… completely, totally wrong. Defending your faith by saying you’re not like the others of your faith is not a defense of your faith; it’s only an acknowledgement that most of the people with the same label as you hate you. To a reasonable person that idea should set off a few red flags.
Jesus said, (Matt 5:18) “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” “The law” refers to the Old Testament Mosaic laws, which call for you to be stoned to death for a huge variety of things that you do, say, and are. This Jesus you say you’re following, while he didn’t specifically claim to hate queer people—as queer Christians are so wont to point out—didn’t need to. The law was already clear on the fact that gays should be killed… and Jesus said to keep the law. Every jot and every tittle.
Honestly, I can’t take any queer person seriously who claims to believe in any form of Christianity. It’s bad enough that the visible majority of young gay males (the “club scene”) are giving a terrible name to those of us who value and seek the education and political literacy necessary to secure our basic human rights across the globe. But to see so many queer people throw reason to the air and sing the praises of the God who demands that their blood be on their own heads… that is masochistic and sickening. And it makes no sense. And it makes me sad.
Fuck your god. He (and it’s always a he) is a cunt.
I became aware of this response a couple days ago, and I’ve been sitting on it, trying to decide if a reply was worth it. It’s clear to me that this person has no understanding of my personal spirituality, beliefs, and faith. It’s also quite clear that they have no interest in coming to understand my personal beliefs. This response ignores all the discussions I’ve actually had regarding my personal beliefs, and rather abusively and arrogantly assumes my beliefs are the same as “The Christians” beliefs. I do not want to reward this abusive and disrespectful response with a direct reply. And if the above body of text is any indication, I’ll only get more abuse and disrespect for my trouble.
I’m not interested in a pointless argument with more abuse. Anybody paying attention to my posts regarding my personal beliefs should know where I stand on this issue, and that’s all I’m going to say about them.
But that’s not all I’m going to say about this abusive response coming from a queer person. To be frank, I’m really upset that somebody who really should be interested in inclusiveness is the source of this attack. It’s the exact same discriminatory behavior that heterosexist Christians exhibit towards queer people, only this time, it’s directed toward queer Christians, from a queer atheist. Just like abusive Christians, this person has no interest in understanding or tolerance. They’ve fixated on a single thing, taken it out of context, and are using it to condemn anybody who doesn’t share that worldview. This approach completely ignores the person’s agency in choosing to believe what they do, which directly contradicts the idea of respect for another’s agency and identity.
“Honestly, I can’t take any queer person seriously who claims to believe in any form of Christianity. It’s bad enough that the visible majority of young gay males (the “club scene”) are giving a terrible name to those of us who value and seek the education and political literacy necessary to secure our basic human rights across the globe.”
I find it just a tad hypocritical that a person supposedly interested in equal rights for queer people is saying these things. Like there’s some “standard” for queerness or something, and those of us who don’t meet that arbitrary, abusive, and coercive standard, are somehow undeserving of respect? Unacceptable. There is no right or wrong way to be queer. Let me say that again. THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO BE QUEER. One more time, for retention’s sake: THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY TO BE QUEER. That includes our religious beliefs. That includes our presentation in public and private. It includes our activities and tendencies, whether it’s to stay in and play with animals, or attend public worship, or hang out at bars or clubs, or to shop in public. The above quote implies that there is a right way to be queer, and that those of us who practice religion or have fun at clubs are doing queerness wrong. That quote is assimilationist BULLSHIT. Assimilation IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE COURSE TOWARDS QUEER RIGHTS. ASSIMILATION IS DESTRUCTIVE TO QUEER RIGHTS. If, in order for me to have my rights, I have to act like a straight, white, atheist, male, I’d essentially be giving up my queerness. That scenario reeks of coercion. It is not just, and I will not stand for it.
The only people giving queer people a “bad name” are those queers who would rather attack their own community than fight for the rights for all of us, regardless of our religious beliefs, regardless of how we express our queerness.
This person also posted a Disqus comment on this post, one I deleted. It said, “Perhaps if you can’t justify them to anyone but yourself, your beliefs aren’t justifiable.” I’ll point out two things and be done. 1: A refusal to justify does not imply an inability to do so. 2: Asking me to justify my beliefs is the same thing as asking a queer person to justify their queerness.
I feel like I’m stuck in the middle of this one. Christianity is generally abusive to queer people. Queer people are generally abusive to atheists. So when I see a queer atheist (who I generally respect otherwise) going off on a queer Christian (ditto), it’s like the triangle of dysfunction has been completed.
I used to be Christian, and the fact is, I no more “chose” to be Christian or atheist than I “chose” to be queer. People change beliefs when the evidence for one becomes overwhelming and things just click. They do not change beliefs because someone else says they ought to.
When I was a Christian, I knew all these things the Bible says about being queer: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm And I told myself “well, nobody stones adulterers anymore either, so whatever”. When I finally allowed myself to let go of the Bible was when I realized it was simply wrong. Even ignoring the bits about queer people, it is so poorly written as to be insulting to any actual divine being. In short, I had too much respect for a god to follow the Bible.
The search for a better religion didn’t take very long, since I realized any god out there wasn’t meddling in our affairs anyway, so I stopped meddling in its. What’s the difference between a god that doesn’t perform miracles and doesn’t speak directly to people and lets bad things happen everywhere and no god at all? None.
So yeah, being queer is perfectly compatible with a non-literal reading of the Bible. And maybe an alliance between the liberal Christians and the atheists is just what we need to disarm the fundamentalists. I’d be down for that.
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