Oh? It does now does it? Well excuse me if I don’t feel physically attracted to a trans-men and if that makes me any less of a gay male in your eyes. And no, it is not. This person happens to not find trans-women attractive, she’s not shoving anything down anyone’s throat, she’s not telling anyone personally that they are ugly. I’m pretty sure you have your own beauty canon so don’t come here all high and mighty telling people what they are supposed to feel attracted to or not. being gay/lesbian/trans doesn’t mean you have to think everything’s nice and lovely and beautiful. Everyone has their turn ons and turn offs, and don’t tell me physical attraction has nothing to do with love because as much of a small part it plays, it still plays a small part in a relationship.
Also: I don’t need big words (specially big words that aren’t even in my native language) to know that there are gay/bi guys that aren’t attracted to me due to race canons and I’m quite fine with that and don’t consider it a god damn hate crime and to know what the person I’m dating at this very moment thought he was straight until he met me. If you want to make a hate crime out of every little ting be free to do so, but you are what makes some of us sound like whiny little spoiled bitches. Everything is a personal attack to you people, hell you even turn on people that are on your side of the border per say. Would I like to marry my partner, yes I would, would I like to have a family, of course, would I like kids, a few cats and villa in south Italy fuck yeah I would. Would I like to be considered a beautiful little special snowflake just because I’m gay, fuck no, my physical appearance has nothing to do with my sexuality. If someone thinks I’m ugly, fine. If someone doesn’t like Korean beauty canons well la-di-da they probably have other beauty canons, the same way some people like blondes or red-heads.
Seriously, you just make a storm in a glass of water out of everything.Not everyone is out to get you.
Here. Stop being defensive for a second and listen to me, please.
The problem with generalizations about “I’m not attracted to X people” is that they’re based on stereotypes. If those stereotypes are of a marginalized group of people, they tend to be pretty offensive.
There’s a difference between saying “I’ve never been attracted to a trans woman” and saying “I’m not attracted to trans women”. The latter implies some fundamental quality about all trans women that the secret-maker finds unattractive — which… the only fundamental quality would be that they’re trans. Everything else varies.
Saying “I’m not attracted to trans women/trans men” implies that there’s somethingdifferent about trans women/trans men. It implies that we’re not “real” men or women. It implies that you can always, always tell the difference — which you can’t.
Even the hoary old “I’m only attracted to female-assigned genitalia!” stuff is suspect, because, well… I don’t know about you, but I’m typically attracted to someone before I find out the configuration of their junk. Not only that, but there are post-op trans men and women.
The reason people are responding with anger and unhappiness is that the dating game is pretty messed up for trans people. I’m saying this as a trans guy who hasn’t had a boyfriend since I came out; a lot of my nervousness about dating people comes from a fear that they won’t read me as a man. I can’t be in a relationship with someone who considers me a woman, because it heightens my dysphoria and inspires feelings of horror: the person who ought to be closest to me, it seems, is trying to force me into being something I’m not.
Similarly, I’m nervous that the gay community will never consider me a “real man” because I’m trans*. I’ve got a very awesome group of friends so I’m not going to be ~forever alone~, but I’d like to have a boyfriend at some point — and it’s not a safe bet that I’ll have one, despite being a very successful, smart, sociable young man who is (according to objective individuals) pretty cute. Why not? Because I’m a trans man.
So reading secrets like this inspires feelings of revulsion and concern in me because it plays into my worry that I’m never going to be in a romantic relationship again, and that I’ll never be seen as a man, particularly by the people I am romantically/sexually interested in.
I hope we’re achieving some greater understanding here, instead of shouting at each other.
^^ Commentary is spot-fucking-on, y’all.
so then is it wrong for a straight woman to say “I’m not attracted to women”, even though all women are different?
I’m going to agree with angels-tale here.
Just because something hits on dysphoria/a sore spot for you doesn’t mean the person who said it is always wrong/being transphobic.
I was wondering when someone was going to ask that.
My personal thoughts: I don’t think it’s necessarily correct. I’m not sure there’s a single truly monosexual person out there in the universe. This is not to say “all lesbians just haven’t met the right man”, because that implies a level of heteronormativity; it’s to say that I don’t think there are any Kinsey 0 or 6s out there. 0.0000000000000000000000001s, yes. 5.999999999999999999999999999999s, yes (and I’m aware that Kinsey scale is nonbinary erasing, but this whole conversation is binary).
But it’s not busted to say “I’m straight” or “I’m gay”. Not like this secret is. Here’s where it gets complicated: You have to factor in history & politics.
The reason this secret is busted is because a lesbian (a woman who likes women) is saying that she is attracted to trans men (as a universal) but not trans women (as a universal). There’s a lot of bad history behind that, specifically the erasure of trans guys as butch lesbians and the implied invalidation of our genders — and, possibly more importantly, exclusion of trans women from feminist, lesbian-majority spaces & woman-focused support networks. Suggesting that one is 100% straight so does not like women is not the same as suggesting that one is 100% lesbian and likes trans men but not trans women.
Here’s the message trans people get: Trans women, you’re not woman enough for a lesbian to like you. Trans men, you’re not man enough for a lesbian to be uninterested in you. This echoes the complete and utter fuckedness of trans guys being allowed in womyn-only spaces, but trans women not.
There’s a difference between a lesbian having an interest in one trans guy and respecting his gender, and a lesbian being universally attracted to trans guys. The latter is erasing. The former? Well, I wouldn’t date a lesbian (even if I liked women) because I’m pretty nervous about misgendering, but I don’t think it’s necessarily erasing behavior.
Look at it from the other side. There are a lot of straight-identifying cis guys who sleep with other cis men and consider themselves straight. This is why they changed the HIV risk group to be “Men who have sex with men”, not just “gay men” — people who were at risk did not identify themselves necessarily as “gay”. This isn’t a problem. There’s no identity erasure going on.
If you have a straight-identified cis guy who sleeps with trans men repeatedly and still identifies as straight, there’s a problem there. Is he identifying as straight because he doesn’t view his partners as “real men”? Is he identifying as straight because he’s bisexual but men are discouraged from identifying as such?
Or, another facet: I’m a gay trans guy. I’ve slept with a trans woman. I’m not generally attracted to women, trans or cis; this one woman was an exception. She didn’t necessarily believe me at first that I respected her gender (for which I do not blame her — I’m gay-identified, remember?) but I really, really do, and she finally believed me. Does that make me bisexual? Sure, why not? I was attracted to & slept with someone who is a woman, who I recognized as a woman. I am a man. That means that I’m at least a little bit bi.
Sexual identity is a funny thing, but it’s not unassailable. I go back to the old advice for this secret maker and anyone who empathizes with it: examine why you feel this way. Make sure you’re not invalidating gender. Make sure you’re not discounting all trans women as “male-bodied” or similarly busted terms. Make sure you’re not excluding them because they’re not “curvy” or “soft”, ‘cause many are (and many cis women are not). Cultivate a set of qualities that make you attracted to a person, not to a “man” or “woman”. Make sure you’re not feeling this way out of internalized cissexism. ‘Cause you probably are, if you’re comfortable making huge blanket assertions like this.
Also reblog this for awesome commentary.